Discover the Fascinating Story of Yoko Ono with Author Lisa Tolin

A podcast interview with Lisa Tolin discussing Can You Imagine?: The Art and Life of Yoko Ono on The Growing Readers Podcast, a production of The Children’s Book Review.

The Fascinating Journey of Yoko Ono: Lisa Tolin Reveals the Woman Behind the Myths

Join us as author Lisa Tolin discusses her new picture book, Can You Imagine?: The Art and Life of Yoko Ono, and takes listeners beyond the Beatles narrative to discover the remarkable artist who survived war, challenged artistic boundaries, and used imagination to change the world. In this captivating conversation, Tolin shares intimate insights from her personal interview with Yoko Ono and explains why this misunderstood visionary’s story of resilience and creativity resonates powerfully with children today. Discover how Ono’s conceptual art and peace activism offer profound lessons for young minds in our complex world.

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Read the Transcript

I’ll format the transcript with proper speaker identifications and italicize book titles while keeping the content verbatim but correcting any grammar issues:

Bianca Schulze: Hi Lisa, welcome to the Growing Readers podcast.

Lisa Tolin: Hi, thank you so much for having me here. I’m excited to be here.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, I’m excited you’re here. I love your latest book. But before we go into it, let’s have some fun and warm up with a couple of rapid fire questions. So just whatever comes to your mind. And if you want to say pass, you can say pass if nothing’s coming to mind.

Lisa Tolin: Okay, I’ve heard these before they make me a little nervous, but I’ll do my best.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, I always say like with rapid fire questions, you can always reserve the right to have a different answer another time. All right, so imagination or reality, which is more interesting to you?

Lisa Tolin: Imagination for sure. Especially now with reality feeling a little grim these days, I think a lot of us are escaping into imaginary worlds.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, I love that. If you could have dinner with Yoko Ono and ask her just one question, what would it be?

Lisa Tolin: I have so many questions. That’s a really tough question. You know, and I did get the chance to interview her, which was amazing. And I think what I, what I really wanted to focus on with her was her resilience, because to me, it’s just so remarkable, like how, you know, she talked about being, realizing that everyone hated her by going to a party with John, and everybody just turned their backs on her. And she realized like, this is what’s happening here. And to be able to kind of face that, both in person and from a large media ongoing like public campaign against her and still keep producing art is incredible because if you look at me crosswise I’ll be like I’ll never write again. So I really appreciate her ability to kind of produce art in difficult circumstances.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. Pretty incredible. All right, well, the answer to this next one doesn’t have to be a Beatles or a Yoko Ono song. What’s your go-to karaoke choice?

Lisa Tolin: Gosh. I don’t do karaoke deliberately. My husband and I have always joked that we would do a Bobby Brown song if it came to it and I don’t, I really don’t know why, but yeah, that’s we’ll go.

Bianca Schulze: That’s funny. I love it. All right, are you a morning writer or a night owl?

Lisa Tolin: It’s funny, I am a night owl as a person, but for writing I think mornings are better for me.

Bianca Schulze: Okay, what’s one object in your workspace that we might find surprising?

Lisa Tolin: Hmm. Well, okay. I have this little jar of inspiration. It’s like, it’s from the Brooklyn Superhero Supply Company, which is like the reading group founded by David Eggers. I don’t think it could, mean, inspiration, we can’t open it, we can’t ruin it by finding out what’s really in there. So.

Bianca Schulze: Ooh, what’s inside it?

Bianca Schulze: I love that. My gosh, I might have to seek that out for my own desk. All right. If your creative process had a soundtrack, what would be the title track?

Lisa Tolin: Hmm. I mean, so it’s hard because I feel like maybe the long and winding road to bring it back to the Beatles, but I do feel like I wander quite a bit. So it takes me a while.

Bianca Schulze: I’m actually really impressed that you came up with a song so quickly, actually. I was like, I bet I’m like, this one, this one’s going to be hard. And I love that choice. All right. This one’s a fill in the blank. So the best thing about writing for children is.

Lisa Tolin: Getting to talk to children. I mean, they’re the best audience. They’re so amazing and perceptive and sweet. And I just, love being able to connect with the audience. That’s the most exciting part.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. All right. Well, then on the on the topic of talking to children, what’s the weirdest thing a child has ever said to you about one of your books?

Lisa Tolin: Hmm. I mean, you get a lot of kids kind of just raising their hands and saying like, I have a little brother or like, you know, I have a dog, I have a piano, you know, lot of things that just don’t really have anything to do with the book. But I did have I thought the sweetest response from a kid was he went home for this is I visited a school to talk about How to Be a Rockstar my first book. And in the book, it talks about having stuffed animals as backup singers. So he went home and set up all of his stuffed animals to be his backup singers. And he told his mom he wanted to be a rock star and a writer, which I thought was so sweet.

Bianca Schulze: My gosh. Yeah, that’s really special. All right. Well, if you weren’t a writer, what creative profession would you have pursued?

Lisa Tolin: I always wanted to be an architect. I thought, you know, I love the beauty of buildings and being it was kind of this wonderful mix of like math and precision, but also artistry. I love that about it.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, awesome. All right. Well, let’s kind of go into our longer answers now. So I know that you juggle a full-time job, motherhood, and writing books. So can you talk to me about your life balancing act and how you find time to write?

Lisa Tolin: This is another difficult question because it’s not something that I feel like I’ve mastered in any way. It’s kind of a daily struggle to be able to find the time to do everything and not feel like you’re dropping any balls. And so some of it’s about kind of cycling, if that makes sense. I’m gonna go next month to a retreat at Highlights, which is incredible, just to have a chance to just focus for a few days on the thing on writing and take a break from work and the kids and everything. But I definitely think writing for me is a little bit seasonal. Like there are going to be times when I’m not able to do it, you know, or not able to do very much, or maybe I’m just reading and critiquing other people’s work and I’m just not able to move forward. And I’ve had to kind of accept that because I think when I started out, I was I had this feeling like, no, I’m not doing enough. I’m not doing enough. I’m not doing enough. But I think I’ve had to realize that everybody’s schedule is a little different and mine’s going to be a little bit slower than other people’s and I have to give myself that grace.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, yeah, I love that. I completely relate to that. So, yeah, I bet there’s lots of listeners nodding along as well. All right, well, people off, yeah. No, it’s fine.

Lisa Tolin: Well, it’s hard too. Sorry, I don’t mean to cut you off. But you see other people who are just like publishing book after book after book and it’s hard not to feel like, maybe I should be doing this at a faster pace. Maybe I’m not succeeding. Maybe I’m terrible at this. And I think it’s really hard not to compare, but you have to really shut that down when it pops up in your brain.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, absolutely. Because there’s so many different reasons as to why people have time to just like only dedicate to writing and all of the above. You know, we’re all just doing the best that we can. And I think what you said, too, is giving ourselves that grace to just be who we are and be on the path that we need to be on. So it’s beautiful. Well, people often say that you should be a reader before you can be a writer. So first part of the question is, do you agree with that? And then the second part is, was there a pivotal moment in your life in which you considered yourself a reader?

Lisa Tolin: I absolutely agree with that. I think, I mean, you have to, can’t, you shouldn’t even try to produce something without seeing what other, what’s being done, you know? And even in that sense, reading things that are, you know, a hundred years old is great and fun sometimes, but doesn’t really teach you what you need to know if you want to make something today. So I think it’s really important to not just read, but read widely and currently, you know, classics are good too, but just to see, you know, especially if you want to be published, what are you competing with? What are you sitting on a shelf with? That’s super important. I always considered myself a reader. I loved being read to as a kid and maybe I’m, I have three kids or I was one of three kids. So maybe it was my way of getting attention was getting to be the person on the lap having a book, I can definitely see that that’s part of the love of reading is the love of togetherness. And I think especially so with picture books. So I do associate reading with love in that way. And so I think it started really young. And at the same time, I think there’s reading is this wonderful escape where you are fully alone and immersed in a world. And so part of my reading habit, I think, really blossomed when I broke away from that reading with the parents, you know, reading what my parents wanted me to read. So I think being able to choose my own books. When I was a teen, I loved Sweet Valley High. My mom didn’t approve at all. She thought it was trash, you know, and I shouldn’t read these books. But I read them all. And I think that was like a way of not just enjoying a world that was my own, but establishing a little bit of independence. And I think it’s super important for kids to be able to do that, which is why all of the book bans happening now are just heartbreaking. I mean, it’s one of the reasons, many.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well then, since you mentioned that your relationship with reading deepened when you started choosing books that your mom didn’t want you to read, and I guess also in this kind of time where book bans are just, it’s over the top, like, how has that spirit of literary independence influenced your approach to writing for children?

Lisa Tolin: Well, I think, you know, it’s easy to kind of want to give, you know, fall into a trend or write exactly what you’re seeing is successful, but you have to really follow your own muse and what you want to write about. And I have had people say, why are you writing about Yoko Ono for kids? And I think, you know, partly people don’t understand Yoko very well. Partly people don’t understand what’s currently happening in the children’s book world and how rich picture book biographies have become and how beautiful they are as part of the classroom. But partly I have to admit, I wrote about Yoko Ono because I wanted to. It wasn’t like because children everywhere are demanding this book. It was because it interested me and I think you have to be able to, you know, that comes across I think in writing if it’s something that you’re really driven by.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. All right. Well, let’s talk about the book. So it’s Can You Imagine? The Art and Life of Yoko Ono. And it introduces young readers to a pretty remarkable artist. So you said you had this desire to write about her. That’s who you wanted to write about. So what do you think it was that drew you to Yoko Ono and wanting to tell her story for kids?

Lisa Tolin: Well, I first heard about Yoko in the way probably most people do, which is as part of the Beatles story and not a good part of it. You know, like that was the doom and gloom kind of end of the story. And, you know, years, many years later, I got to interview her. There was a new musical about the life of John Lennon. And so I got to interview her for that back when I worked at the Associated Press. And the instant I met her, I just knew she had been fully misunderstood, you know? And I saw her and she was this beautiful, powerful, intelligent woman. And my first thought was really like, of course he loved her because I think that that was something people talked about. Why her? Why did he follow this woman down this weird path. But I saw it right away when I met her. And I just felt like, I think there have been a lot of women who have been vilified for things that they shouldn’t have been. You think of like the Monica Lewinsky’s and just the women who have sort of been pulled out into the public square and shamed. I think that’s how I think treatment of Yoko and I just felt like she deserved to have her own story told.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, well then, I mean, that interview experience must have been pretty special. So taking that experience and then now creating this picture book, how do you think that experience, that in-person experience with her helped shape the story?

Lisa Tolin: I think it made me realize a little bit, I mean, of course for interviewing her, I researched her and found out a little bit more about her history, but it made me wanna go deeper and know more. And I hadn’t realized that she had grown up during war and had survived the fire bombing of Tokyo, which makes her anti-war activism so much more meaningful. And it makes sense in a way, you know, people kind of thought she was just this hippie-dippy person, but she’d been through a lot, you know, and she, yeah, she was a hippie, but for, you know, profound reasons.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, yeah. Well, since, you know, she’s obviously been misjudged and underappreciated, what are the most common misconceptions about her that you hope this book helps correct?

Lisa Tolin: Well, I think, I don’t know about misconceptions, but I think people don’t really understand her art. And they say, you know, my uncle said, we went and saw her exhibit at the MoMA and we thought it was really silly. And I said, yeah, you know what? I think she thinks it’s silly too. Like that’s sort of the point. Like she has a sense of humor and it comes through in her art and it is funny. You know, it’s often it’s supposed to make you think that’s really the point. And so a lot of it is ridiculous, intentionally so. And a lot of it is incredibly profound. So I think people don’t really understand conceptual art. So it was a pleasure to get to try to explain that for kids, because I don’t think it’s something they’ve come across yet.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, and I really enjoyed the way you deliver that in the story. And I have a question later on about the back matter, but I love that you go more into that in the back matter because they were just pieces of her conceptual art that you described in there that I felt like I was blowing my mind. She’s so profound and so deep and smart because I think I think the thing about when somebody is sharing something profound, it can be overwhelming. People don’t always get it. But I actually think she was able to simplify things so beautifully in her art. So I think she was so much smarter than people probably gave her credit for, too.

Lisa Tolin: Yeah, and she’s a beautiful poet too. I mean her words are incredible and I think a lot of the reason you know I could write about sort of the themes and the images in her life was because she described them so beautifully. You know she talks about the sky as a theme in her life. I mean who speaks that way? I don’t know. If you asked me to describe three themes in my life I don’t know that I would be able to but she she can you know and she’s deliberately thought about these things and cultivated them. And she’s done so much art that was really ahead of her time. Like I think a couple of years ago, everyone freaked out about the banana taped to the wall at art. I don’t think it was, I wish I could remember the artist, but you know, she did that 50 years ago, you know, more, I think. She put an apple on a pedestal and that’s how she and John met. And so to kind of take these everyday objects and make them into art, you know, she wasn’t the first, but she was certainly an originator of a lot of ideas that I don’t think she’s been given credit for.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, well, on that moment in your picture book, the apple is part of your story. You use that to show how she meets John Lennon and that he walks up and he just took a bite from it. So how did you learn about that moment? Did you like come across that in an article? Did she tell you about it when you interviewed her?

Lisa Tolin: No, she’s recounted that one quite a bit. I mean, it’s their origin story. She said at first she was very cross that he would come and destroy her art. But I think they very quickly kind of had a meeting of the minds where they realized, you’re a little goofy, I’m a little goofy. We do these kind of silly art things that are funny but profound. And I think they just, they understood each other.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, yeah. Well, let’s go back to something you said before, where people have maybe questioned why you wanted to write about Yoko Ono for kids. You know, I think we understand and I’m sure listeners are understanding, but sort of on that concept, I think picture books are often categorized as children’s literature. But so many of these picture books, while they are written for kids, they offer those profound insights for readers of all ages. And so like I always take away so much from a picture book. So did you intentionally create a book that would resonate with both children and adults reading it? Or you know, is that just kind of like a happenstance, like a beautiful thing that both adults and kids will enjoy it?

Lisa Tolin: Yeah, it’s been so wonderful to hear from adults who read it and enjoyed it. So thank you, I appreciate that. And I’ve also heard from adults who are big Yoko fans and said, I didn’t know all of these things about her because she has had a very complex and interesting life. I mean, there’s a lot, I think that people don’t always see. So yeah, I mean, I’d love to say there was some sort of magical plan. I do hope that it lends itself to multiple readings and kind of discovering different layers of meaning because I think there are different threads that you could kind of go back and look at in a new way and understand in a new way.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, from the adult readers that have have read it and given you their feedback, what was particularly meaningful to them or like the most surprising thing that they didn’t know about her?

Lisa Tolin: I think a lot of people don’t know about her childhood and that, you know, first of all, she came from a very privileged family and there were certain expectations of her, you know, that she was going to, you know, play classical music, not whatever she ended up doing, that she was going to kind of be a proper lady and marry the right person and all of these things. You know, I think she was very rebellious for anybody in any era. I mean, she marched to her own drum. But to consider that she came from that background where all of these expectations were on her and she defied them and she did something more interesting for her is incredibly remarkable. And I think also knowing that she lived through war, that she lived in the US and in Japan when the two countries were about to go to war and then lived through the firebombing. Had to, that was really where she first used her imagination to escape her circumstances. And she did that throughout her life, but she started in the middle of war. So I think a lot of people don’t know much about whatever came before John. So I’m happy to be able to share that.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, well I think for me too, I think one of the amazing elements of this book is the artwork. And I always have to imagine that when the editor is, you know, trying to pair an author’s words with an artist, but it’s a biography about an artist, the pressure to pick the right style or the right person to sort of have an artistic vision for it must be it must be a little more challenging and I can just say that illustrator Yas Imamura’s artistic vision, it’s just so stunning. And there is a moment in the book that explores how Yoko as a kid used her imagination to escape the horrors of war. So why don’t you tell us about that powerful spread where she and her brother have fled the firebombing of Tokyo and they’re imagining that they have plenty of food and then in that just also share your general thoughts about how just the art all came together because it is so stunning.

Lisa Tolin: Yeah, I mean, I think Yas Imamura is so incredibly talented and I feel so lucky to have been able to work with her on this book. The spread you mentioned, you know, Yoko has talked about this, that she, you know, she had to flee to the countryside after the firebombing and they were hungry. She and her brother were hungry. So she said, you know, look, they looked at the sky together and she said, imagine that the sky has the food you want to eat, what would you eat? And he said ice cream and she said, but that’s dessert. We have to start with soup. And so she kind of filled the sky with these imaginary things that nourished them. And really it was her imagination nourishing them at a time when they needed some comfort. So Yas has created this beautiful image of them on their backs with the sky full of food. And you can see the light streaming in. And then on the next page, she says, you know, Yoko imagines peace and it shows her surrounded by birds. And she really filled this book. There’s so much bird imagery kind of starting at the beginning. You know, there’s, she shows during the firebombing, there’s really a bird seemingly made of fire fleeing the city. And then in the next page, when she’s imagining peace, she’s enveloped by these peaceful, you know, dove wings. And it’s lovely.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, even the end pages, the artwork on those, the music notes, I mean, she’s just done, just clearly put so much thought into it. And yeah, I think it’s stunning.

Lisa Tolin: Yeah, I mean, she’s shown in the she has this musical staff that’s full of, you know, birds and pizza and other images from throughout her life. And one of the things that she had to do as a child, Yoko had to do as a child was imagine ordinary sounds as music. I think that expands, shows her mind expanding into this world where she’s really using her mind and her imagination in ways that most people don’t. So I think, yeah, Yas did a beautiful job throughout this book. And I know she kind of has her usual style and she loosened it up a little bit in sort of a tribute to Yoko because I do think it’s incredibly difficult to be the artist who’s illustrating another artist. That feels a little bit intimidating, but she has some nods to her style and her art, but keeping her own voice.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, yeah. Well, I’m wondering if any challenges came up while you were writing, because the story does convey complex themes like war and peace, and then obviously this really profound artistic expression. So were there any challenges in, you know, because picture books, have such limited word space available. Like what was it? Was it hard or?

Lisa Tolin: It was. I mean, it is. And I think the beautiful thing about picture books is that they’re a little bit limiting. And so you have to choose your story and be very deliberate about it. But it was not easy, especially, you know, it does deal with a lot of darker themes. It deals with her husband was assassinated. You know, her husband was shot and killed. And so how do you say that to kids? How do you portray it in a way that conveys the feeling, but without being too, you know, scary or in your face. And so we really had to focus on what she did with that, you know, how it spurred her activism later on. And I think Yas really did such a beautiful job with that too. You know, I didn’t know how she was gonna illustrate it. So that was really up to her. And she chose this beautiful image of the three of them, you know, Yoko, John and Sean celebrating his birthday. And then on the next page, the candles are blown out. And that’s a way of kind of showing that he’s gone without really getting into it too deeply.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, just enough that those that think about it will know and those that aren’t ready to take it will just see it as the candles on the cake have been blown out. Yeah, it was such a lovely spot.

Lisa Tolin: Yeah. I think, you know, it’s, there was some worry, like, will kids understand what that means? But I think, you know, it’s there, it’s in the back matter. And if they’re, you know, reading with an adult, hopefully they’ll be able to explain that a little bit too.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, yeah, I think it’s such a beautiful moment. Well, the back matter, as I said before, does such an excellent job showcasing some of Yoko Ono’s kind of most significant conceptual art pieces and installations. And it also provides, you know, additional context for the story, like you just said, like explaining John and the relationship and the unkindness that she experienced. So could you talk about the process of selecting what to include in the back matter and how you approached explaining the abstract conceptual art. Because the way that you explained it, it just all made such perfect sense. It’s just really deep stuff, but I love the way you explained it.

Lisa Tolin: Well, thank you. Yeah, I thought it needed a little more explanation because in the book we, you know, we show some of it. We show people cutting off her clothing. You know, I had a colleague who was like, how are you going to explain cut piece? Oh, because that is a little, you know, I don’t know that that’s something that would be easy to understand what she’s doing or why. And a lot of it is kind of silly. I explain that as like a brain tickle, like, you know, she has these instruction poems that tell you to, you know, bury a cloud in the earth, listen to the sound of the earth turning. And we talk about the, you know, she has a piece for strawberries and violins that she creates. And all of these things are a little funny. And I don’t know that you can just breeze by them without sort of explaining why she’s doing that. So I thought it was important to explain conceptual art and really what she’s doing and also give her her credit for being an innovator in that way.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. Well, what are the ways that you see Yoko Ono’s message of peace and imagination being particularly relevant for children today?

Lisa Tolin: Yeah, it’s a tough time. We are living in another time of war and division. And it’s not dissimilar to the kind of world that John and Yoko were protesting very visibly during Vietnam War. So I think it’s important to be able to take that message from her that you can use your imagination, not just to escape because we do do that. And that’s important actually, I do think it is, but to imagine a better world. And I hope that today’s kids will be able to help us imagine how things can be better. And it’s, you she talked a lot about being a small pebble person. So like, not, you know, you might not have the biggest rock or maybe even having the biggest rock isn’t that great, you know, but if you have a small pebble, you can see it ripple out and understand that you’re making a difference even with a small pebble. And I think for kids, they don’t have big rocks. I mean, a lot of them barely have the tiniest pebble. They don’t have a lot of control over anything in their lives, let alone in the world. But to know that the small things that you do, the small things that you think, the small things you imagine really make a difference is important. And I hope that they will feel empowered by that and know that they can help us be better.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, I love that. That’s beautiful. I’m wondering, I know it’s really early on with the book being out in the world at the time that this episode is being recorded, but have you heard from any young readers yet that have had an opportunity to read it? And if so, is what are they connecting with the most that you’ve noticed?

Lisa Tolin: It’s fun. I, you know, I like to see, I think kids kind of laugh at the art, which I love because I think that is much of the intent and they’re like, what is this? And I think, I hope that it expands them to a different kind of artistic world. And there’ve been some other recent picture book biographies that I think are great companions too. There’s one about John Cage performing nothing. There’s a couple of others in the conceptual art world that I think hopefully could sit together in either an art class or in a women’s history class, any kind of, I guess there’s no women’s, sorry, say that again. Yeah, they could sit together in an English class, a social studies class, and hopefully expose kids to this kind of art. I think that’s been really meaningful and I would love to see and I haven’t, I got to at a book fair, work with kids together to make a wish tree, which was incredible because the, you know, I don’t know if you’ve seen the wish tree. I just recently went to, I think the biggest ever installation in New York of the wish tree. It was like 93 trees and people attach their wishes on these beautiful note cards. And some of them are really silly, you know, and some of them are profound. Some of them are, you know, I wish my husband would do the dishes and some of them are, I wish this person I love would have less pain in their lives. I wish people would understand me. I wish I could have these goals and aspirations come true. And it’s really beautiful and profound to see all of those things come together. So I hope that kids can do that in the classroom too, it would be incredible to see. We did something like that with my son’s school back during COVID. A lot of it was like, wish for no COVID, but there were these beautiful expressions of like, I wish my parents were still together and I wish I could have a dog and I wish I could ride a unicorn. It’s like kind of these beautiful whimsical things and these very serious things and treating them with the same level of seriousness and respect.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, it’s beautiful. I feel like what’s coming to my mind about reading a book like this one that you’ve created is, you know, so many of us that advocate for children’s literature, you know, we express the importance of reading wide and reading about all like, you know, all kinds of genres, all kinds of people, all kinds of backgrounds, because it helps us become critical thinkers. And I can just see this book really aiding in helping raise critical thinkers because I think that’s what Yoko Ono was, you know, just, and I think being able to witness that in your story and to take away that little seed being planted of how you can look at something. I mean, even as simple as a banana, is it a banana or is it a telephone holding it up to your head, right? Like these are the way that kids play and do become critical thinkers. So, I just think it’s such an amazing addition to bookshelves. So I don’t know if you have extra thoughts on that before I ask you another question.

Lisa Tolin: Well, I think that’s beautiful and I hope so. Yeah, I do think she’s such an incredible, I mean, she’s really, when you talk about outside of the box thinking, she’s right there. She’s an incredible role model for that, that you don’t have to do what people expect you to do. You don’t have to be the person who pleases other people because she certainly didn’t worry much about that at this time when she was really widely criticized. She still was going to get up on stage and shriek into the microphone, even though, you know, they thought she was crazy at the time. Just being able to express herself and you’re right, think critically and imaginatively. I just think she’s, she’s an incredible role model.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. Well, your previous book, How to Be a Rockstar, has a really different tone from this biography. So like what has been fun for you to write in such kind of different styles and genre?

Lisa Tolin: Yeah, I mean, I love, I hope I get to write more humorous picture books too, because I do love them. And I loved reading them with my kids. I really, you know, I think there’s something intoxicating about being able to make your kids laugh, you know, and laughing together. It’s a real emotional release and something that is a beautiful gift that I think writers give to families. I loved being able to read other people’s words and make my kids crack up. So I’d love to put more of that into the world. I also, my background is really as a journalist. So nonfiction has been my work and my love. I love going down research rabbit holes and learning more and more and more. So I’d love to be able to do both of those things and they kind of fulfill different needs for me.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, I love that. All right, well, what’s next for you? And or even like, what are you working on right now? Like, how are you spending your days? Is there anything you want to share can share?

Lisa Tolin: Yeah, I mean, I don’t have anything. I wish I could say I have 12 more books coming out. But as we talked about, my process is a little bit slower. My publishing journey will probably take a little longer. But I am still working on creating funny picture books and nonfiction. And I hope to keep up that mix because I love doing both of them.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. All right. Well, finally, if Yoko Ono herself were to read your book, what would you hope her reaction would be?

Lisa Tolin: Well, I hope she would love it, of course. I hope she would feel seen because, you know, she did after I interviewed her, she wrote me a lovely note that she had enjoyed the interview and the piece that came out of it. And I think she isn’t always seen. And I hope that she would feel the depth of her life reflected here.

Bianca Schulze: That’s really nice. Well, Lisa, thank you so much for bringing such an important artist and thinker to life for young readers. I think I especially appreciate how you’ve illuminated her story, like beyond the Beatles and the John Lennon connection, because that’s how I know her. So I love that you’ve been able to illuminate and show her as the visionary, resilient creator that she truly is and to demonstrate that to young readers I think is so beautiful and powerful. So Can You Imagine? reminds us all of the power of imagination to transform our world. So thank you for your time and for creating books that encourage children and all of us to imagine a better world.

Lisa Tolin: Thank you so much, Bianca. It’s been such a pleasure to be here.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, you’re welcome.

Show Notes

Publisher’s Book Summary: A stunning picture book biography in lyrical, poignant prose about Yoko Ono—a brilliant musician and one of the creative minds behind the iconic song “Imagine” by John Lennon.

Yoko Ono has been called many things: Bold. Confrontational. Controversial. Artist. Musician. Witch.

But she has always been, first and foremost, Yoko: a girl who used her imagination to escape the horrors of World War II, and then a woman who used that same gift to find peace after an act of unfathomable violence.

This is a story of a singular soul: an artist, musician, and writer who has always innovated beyond the limits of the accepted, whose brilliance cannot be overshadowed, and whose imagination has been truly revolutionary.

Buy the Book

Lisa Tolin is a journalist and editor who has covered arts and entertainment, lifestyle, health, and breaking news for major news organizations. Her years as a journalist gave her the opportunity to interview Yoko Ono in her home. Lisa lives in Brooklyn, New York, with her husband and two sons.

Learn more about Lisa Tolin at ⁠⁠LisaTolin.com⁠⁠

Additional Books Mentioned:

How to Be a Rockstar by Lisa Tolin: ⁠⁠Amazon⁠⁠ or ⁠⁠Bookshop.org⁠

Can You Imagine?: The Art and Life of Yoko Ono by Lisa Tolin, illustrated by Yas Imamura: ⁠⁠Amazon⁠⁠ or ⁠⁠Bookshop.org⁠⁠