Holly Peppe on Kindness, Bullying, and the Power of Children’s Literature

A podcast interview with Holly Peppe discussing Sophie and the Swans on The Growing Readers Podcast, a production of The Children’s Book Review.

Join us for an inspiring conversation with author Holly Peppe as she discusses her heartwarming children’s book, Sophie and the Swans.

In this episode, Holly shares her journey from teacher to writer and reveals the real-life inspiration behind her story. Discover how this charming tale addresses essential themes of kindness, empathy, and bullying prevention through the adventures of young Sophie and her swan friends.

Holly offers valuable insights into crafting meaningful children’s literature and shares her unique approach to tackling sensitive topics for young readers. Whether you’re a parent, educator, or book enthusiast, you’ll find plenty to love in this discussion about the power of storytelling to shape young minds and promote positive values.

Tune in to learn about Holly’s creative process, her daily writing habits, and the personal experiences that inform her work. Plus, hear about her collaboration with pilot Barrington Irving on the young adult book Touch the Sky. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in children’s literature, character development, and the lasting impact of kindness.

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Bianca Schulze: Well, hello, Holly. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Holly Peppe: Thank you for having me.

Bianca Schulze: I am so excited to talk about your new book, Sophie and the Swans, but I want to go back in time before we dive right into the book. Since you’ve had a really diverse teaching career, from music for grades one through six to literature at the college level, I would love to start our conversation by hearing about what inspired you to become a teacher in the first place.

Holly Peppe: I think I would have to say my parents because they were both natural teachers, even though my father was actually a veterinarian and my mother was a nurse. But they were constantly teaching us and wanting to fill us in with everything we didn’t understand in such a gentle, wonderful way. I also had several aunts who were teachers, and I thought that was kind of a cool profession, but it really was my parents being such great mentors to us that I think early on, I was also doing the same thing. I was helping my little brothers and sisters, and really just felt like that was such an important role in life is to be teaching other people and mentoring other people. And there wasn’t any one turning point. But I remember after going through, I was also inspired, of course, by some of my elementary school teachers who I just adored. And I think it just was, I was following role models, and that’s kind of what I try to do in the book with Sophie as a role model.

Bianca Schulze: Well, you’ve written everything from essays, a memoir, and even a young adult book co-written with Barrington Irving, the youngest person and first black pilot to fly solo around the world, which is so cool. So can you tell us about your journey as a writer, and how did you transition from being a teacher to becoming an author?

Holly Peppe: Well, I think, you know, first of all, I have to just go back to reading. I was a great reader, and I think when you read, you know, it makes… It inspires you to write. So I’ve always written all through my life, and my first poem was at age five, which my mother kept in her drawer. And I always felt really, poetry was my medium, but… And I’ve been writing poetry all my life. But after school, going through school, and wanting to become a teacher, I did follow that path.

So, as you mentioned, I’ve really taught all grades all the way through, right up through college and even graduate school. But then I was writing all the time. I mean, I think a writer is a person who writes when they feel like they need to get something out. And certainly that was me. So I never really stopped writing. And as an author, much of my writing was academic after college, and I became literary executor for a poet, Edna St. Vincent Millay. And I did that from… I’m still literary executor. I started in 2010. I took over from the last one.

And so I wrote many essays about her, academic essays that appear in Yale University Press in that very rarefied world of academia. But my heart was really not there, and that’s why I was writing poetry all the time. And this children’s book I was inspired by, I live on a lake, and this setting of Sophie is really my setting. And that little cabin, you see, that’s Sophie’s little writing cabin, is my writing cabin. So it’s very real. And these swans, Romeo and Juliet, are really swans on my lake that I named Romeo and Juliet. So that was all just a very organic process. It was very natural for me to want to put that down.

And then inspired by a cause which is bullying. And, you know, having been a teacher for all those years, you see that, and, of course, you see it in adults, too. It’s part of our society. And so anything I could do to try and lessen the difficulty of bullying for children just felt like a really good place to go with a book. So I actually started writing a book about swans, because I do love swans, and I know a lot about them. And then I segued into thinking, well, if I’m going to write about them, why don’t I make it a book that has some usefulness?

And so I decided to write an anti-bullying book, with my swans, you know, so it’s a very real environment, but I put that together to send a message and help kids understand. Sometimes bullying is not… It’s not the child that’s really the problem. It’s whatever’s happened to the child. So it’s really more bullying behavior when you call someone a bully. Yes, they probably experienced something that moved them toward that.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. So it almost feels as though, and I like to say this about my own writing, is that… And maybe this is true for a lot of writers, is that we often write to help us make sense of the world, and it’s an experience that we do when we get it out in words and on paper or whatever creative form that is, it’s helping make sense of the world. And if we can share that with others, I know that makes me feel really good, like I’m contributing somehow. Would you say that’s true for you?

Holly Peppe: I completely agree. I completely agree. I mean, writing is therapeutic, and I’m always encouraging other people to write. I did teach writing for many years on all levels. And I feel like it’s a way for us to, first of all, unload any of the problems that we have by putting them on paper. But also, it’s a way to express what we really can’t express in daily life. You can’t go around being mad or sad or, you know, you can. But it’s… It’s important to actually have some closure on that. And if you put it into words and you can see it, it lessens the pain and it increases the joy.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, well, we’re definitely going to go more into Sophie and the Swans and the bullying and your beautiful setting. And I love that… It’s actually like the setting is where you live. But since we’re still talking just kind of more about you as a writer, I know that you have a daily practice that you do, and it’s journaling, which kind of, you know, I guess is what we’re talking about right now, getting that out. So tell me about your practice of daily journaling.

Holly Peppe: Well, it’s always a challenge to do something at the same time every day. So I try, after I get up in the morning, I have a morning routine, and then I try to put something down, something on paper. And whether it’s a poem or whether it’s a part of a song, it might be lyrics that I’m going to go back to, because I did… As you know, I worked in music for a while, and I do play the guitar, etcetera. But it’s such a good release, and I think it’s important for everyone, especially if you’re having a problem or if something is bothering you, you just can’t sort of leave it alone. If you write it out, you’ll feel better. I mean, I think that’s the case with everyone. And in all my writing classes, I’ve found that… That people who’ve never written and then they write always feel better about getting it down on paper. And sometimes you end up with something wonderful that you can then share with your friends or family or whatever. So I just think journaling is a really important process. And I write every day, but I have to confess, I don’t write at the same time every day.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, I actually… I don’t know too many authors that do write… Like, some are very religious about what time they write, and this is my writing time. But I feel like a lot, you know, it’s not always everybody’s main job right. And so we write when we can. We write when, when the creativity is flowing. So… But I love that journaling practice that you have that at least every day you’re using those writing muscles, you know, your creativity, your, your handwriting, all of it.

Holly Peppe: Yes. And I think, I think that’s what I’ve said to people who say, gee, I can’t write. I say, writing is like exercise. You have to do it. And the more you do it, the better you get at it. And it helps to enjoy it. And I love to write, and I think it’s just a necessity in my life. And I think it’s not for everybody. Some people dread writing, but it is such a good release and I think it’s so necessary, especially in these times when there’s so much conflict all over the world. You know, if you can have a moment with yourself… And in some of my classes, I tell people, write yourself a letter. Write your parents a letter. Write, you know, if you don’t want to write, you think, well, I don’t have an idea, just write a letter. And it’s good practice.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. And you don’t even have to send that letter, even just the writing the letter. And… Yeah, and maybe you shouldn’t. Yeah, exactly. All right, well, let’s dive into your new book, Sophie and the Swans. So you touched on what inspired you to write this story. And the swans, Romeo and Juliet are real swans on the lake in where you live. So tell me a little more about the inspiration. And is Sophie inspired by somebody specific in your life, or she just came to you as the messenger of what you wanted to tell?

Holly Peppe: Sophie is a real person. Sophie Sussmann is her name. And I met her because she and her father, I’m sorry, I spoke with her father. I spoke with Sophie’s father and we were talking about this book, which I mentioned to him. And Sophie at the time was twelve, and this is a few years later now, but he said, well, maybe she could illustrate the book. So we talked about that and she sent me a few illustrations. Her mother is also an artist, so that seemed like a natural thing. But as most people know who have written books, it’s a long process. It takes a lot of time. And Sophie was in school, so it just wasn’t practical. But I was very inspired by Sophie. She’s a wonderful young woman, very, knows the difference between right and wrong and wants to do the right thing. And so I just decided that I would call the main character Sophie, after Sophie, because she was such a… She’s such a good role model, and that’s really where Sophie came from. There’s a real Sophie, and I do have her on the book. I have a picture of the real Sophie on the book.

Bianca Schulze: So in Sophie and the Swans, as you mentioned, you address the issue of bullying, and we know it’s a really big issue for kids in school. So there’s a really powerful moment in the book where Sophie says, “my mother says we should always treat others with kindness, even if they aren’t kind to you.” So can you elaborate on why you chose to include this message in the story?

Holly Peppe: Well, I think that’s really the basic message that I would like to get out there to children and adults, which is that if you… You don’t need to model people who have bad behavior, but you do need to realize that you have a lot of influence in what happens in your life and other people’s lives. And if you feel someone is being mean to you… Now, for children just to aside here, if children are being bullied, I suggest they go and try to find a trusted adult to confide in, because it’s not always easy to defuse a bully’s anger or whatever else is going on. But I think it’s really also important to respond in a way that does not fuel the behavior, the bad behavior. And if one responds with kindness, sometimes, it’s very surprising. It will diffuse the bully’s behavior. It will stop them in their tracks. They’re not quite sure what to do. And that may teach them a lesson. It may not, but it certainly will give them a different perspective on how they are affecting other people.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. So a belief that I share with you is that children are inherently good inside. Everybody is good inside. But sometimes, you know, kids, adults, we can follow bad examples. So would you like to discuss how Sophie and the Swans really addresses that concept of just everybody is good inside, but just sometimes they follow a bad example?

Holly Peppe: Sure. I think in the case of Ned, we have the brothers. We have the younger brother, Sam, who’s a very sweet fellow, and he doesn’t have any bullying behavior. He doesn’t display any bullying behavior. But his older brother, Ned, had been laughed at in his former school, so he was suffering from that because he got big glasses, new glasses, and the kids were making fun of him. And so his parents moved him to this house right next door to Sophie. But Ned carried that anger with him and that resentment and hurt. And so, once again, his younger brother Sam didn’t have any of those issues. But when Ned came down the hill to see, he saw Sophie with the swans. He immediately lashed out at her for no good reason. You know, he didn’t have, he didn’t know who it was. He didn’t know. And he just started criticizing her and bullying her and saying, you know, crazy swan girl and are you going to make them fat and all that.

And Sophie stood up to him and said, no, that’s not… And showed him that’s not appropriate behavior. But he dropped his stone. He was throwing stones at the swan and he stomped up the hill. So he kind of right away, you know, he was confronted and he changed his behavior, or at least he left it for a moment. And I think having Sam as another character in the story who’s his younger brother, who says, wow, to Sophie, you know, you’re really brave to stand up to him. And Sophie says, well, I don’t want him to hurt Romeo and Juliet. So right away we see the two brothers, we see the behavior, and we see Sophie standing up to them.

Now, you go to the next stage of the story, and Sophie and Sam have a chance to help this bully who’s been, even though she’s been mean to him, she decides to turn around and be kind. And Sam has a moment and says, you know, let the grown-ups deal with this. But Sophie says, my mother always said, and quote what you said, which is that always be kind to others, even if they’re not kind to you. And so they go out and they save him on the lake. And that shows, again, it’s a role model issue, which is that they do something he probably wouldn’t have done, but that shows him that there’s a way to deal with his distress.

Bianca Schulze: Yes.

Holly Peppe: And he comes around, very gentle lesson because he comes around and he, and he does say, you know, I was out here because I thought I yelled because I thought you’d be out feeding the swans. And Sophie says, well, you’re going to have to thank Romeo and Juliet, aren’t you? And he kind of gives in and says, I guess so.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. I think what I love about Sophie so much is that I think it can be hard to say to children, well, if there’s a bully out there, you just need to be kind to them. Right. But there’s layers to that. And I think Sophie shows that she has boundaries and she doesn’t accept his unkindness, but she delivers it in factual ways and with kindness. Right. And so that’s where the kindness comes in. So she’s not allowing him to penetrate, you know, her well-being and who she is by retaliating or anything like that. You know, she has a clear boundary. You shouldn’t say that. You shouldn’t hurt the swans. Right. And I just… I love that about her. I think she’s such a great role model for kids to see on how to actually put this into practice. So I just… I think Sophie is such an amazing role model and character.

Holly Peppe: Well, there she is. Yeah. I hope… And I hope that message, I will say the children who’ve read the book, it got the message right away, you know, and I think it’s… I think behavior is truth. You know, that’s… We really see how people act, and that’s who they are. And in the end, Sophie is triumphant in the sense that she’s done her job by showing this bully there’s another way to be, but there’s no real… It’s not didactic, like, you know, it’s not like a big, hard lesson. And so she has courage and kindness together, and that combination really makes a difference. Yeah, absolutely.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, you can keep going.

Holly Peppe: Yeah. Once again, this is not to say that every bully can be diffused, and all bullying behavior can be diffused with kindness. Sometimes a child needs to go to a trusted adult and tell them what’s happening so they can get some aid in dealing with the bully. Not all bullies are easily diffused.

Bianca Schulze: So true. So true. Well, coming from a large family, you have three brothers and a sister. I’m curious to know how your personal experiences have influenced your understanding of children’s behavior and the themes in your book.

Holly Peppe: Well, I have to say, I have a wonderful family, and we didn’t have any bullying in our family. And I think it’s because, again, my parents were good role models. They would never allow it. That would never be… But I know a lot of children. I know a lot about children’s behavior because I grew up in a big family, and we were always really required to help one another, to support one another, and that carried us through our lives.

You know, I was very fortunate. We didn’t have anyone in the family who was difficult to deal with. None of the children. You know, we all… It’s not that we all listen to our parents, but we all respected them, and we… So we’ve never had any disputes among ourselves. But certainly being in school and being around children all through my life, you see them mistreating one another, which is so hurtful. And I really distress when I see children being mean to other children.

So I’m hoping this book will deliver a lesson and really help readers understand that bullying comes from somewhere. A child isn’t born a bully. They really are good. As you said before, children are pure and wonderful. But sometimes they either model bad behavior or they are hurt in some way and they don’t know how to respond, and so they become… They display bullying behavior.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. And I think, too, as a reader, if you’re a child that maybe identifies more with the Sophie and the Sam character, you know, it can also help you realize if you are a child that feels like you’re being bullied, that, okay, this isn’t about me. It isn’t about me. And by understanding that, there’s a seed of an issue within the bully that can really help somebody that feels bullied to process that experience. And really, this is less about me and more about them.

Holly Peppe: Good. Yes, I agree.

Bianca Schulze: So something really amazing about this book is that your royalties will be going to some organizations. So do you want to talk about that? Because I think this is wonderful.

Holly Peppe: Yes. All my royalties are being split between three organizations. One is literally, it’s all about bullying. It’s the National Bullying Prevention Center, and they do wonderful work. You can look them up online. The second is a group called We the Best, which is a great organization in South Florida run by DJ Khaled, who’s actually a rapper. And that is… This is an organization that serves underserved communities and helps children. They have all kinds of programs called We the Best. And the third is Animal Nation. And Animal Nation is a wonderful nonprofit. It’s a rehabilitation and rescue center. And it’s actually near my lake. It’s near where I live. And they have 250 rescue animals there that they care for, including swans. So I thought that was a good combination of nonprofits to donate to. So if you buy the book, please know it’s not… I’m not keeping the money. The proceeds are going to these great organizations.

Bianca Schulze: Now, do you have a copy with you right now?

Holly Peppe: I do.

Bianca Schulze: So, DJ Khaled actually gave an amazing blurb about this book, and I was wondering if you want to read it to us right now.

Holly Peppe: Sure. “You said a beautiful story about the love of nature and the power of being your best with kindness and respect. A reminder for us that love is the only way.” DJ Khaled.

I was thrilled that DJ Khaled offered a quote about the book. He’s a music producer, artist, entrepreneur, philanthropist, and father. But being a father of two is really his priority. He has these wonderful two little sons, and you can see him on Instagram and et cetera, et cetera. But he really loves being a father, so I was thrilled that he signed on.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. And it’s such a great quote that he gave because it really does just encapsulate what your story has to offer. So I’m going to ask you this. What impact do you hope this book will have on young readers as well as their teachers and parents?

Holly Peppe: Well, I hope this book will help them understand where bullying comes from and that it’s possible to diffuse it with your own behavior. An act of kindness will go a long way, and I hope they take that message with them. And also for any of the children who read the book who might have some bullying behavior or display some bullying behavior, I’m hoping it may diffuse that for them, too, and realize that it’s just not helpful. And it doesn’t… Optics… The optics are bad. It doesn’t look good. It doesn’t feel good. And hurting other people is just not a good way to behave.

Bianca Schulze: I thought it was great, but if you want to take another go at it, you can.

Holly Peppe: No, I think that’s okay.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah, no, I think you did great. I think that was really great. All right. So is there anything that you think that we have not talked about that we should have talked about, or do you think that we have covered what we need to cover so that listeners, you know, have what they need to know about the story before they go and read it?

Holly Peppe: No, I think that’s fine. I can say one more thing. You mentioned another book and this book I wrote with Barrington Irving, who’s the first black pilot and youngest person to fly…

Bianca Schulze: Holly, let me ask you a great question to lead us in. Listeners are really clear. Okay, so… Well, Holly, as we wrap up, I’m actually really eager to hear about your book, Touch the Sky. I mentioned it briefly up front. So can you just tell us about co-writing it with Barrington Irving and the inspiration behind that story?

Holly Peppe: Sure. I worked in PR for many years, and I was the manager for Barrington Irving. I met him when he was in his early twenties, actually 19, I think he was. But anyway, he was the first black pilot to fly solo around the world, and I did all the PR for him. I became his manager because I wanted to help him, but we didn’t have any kind of business relationship, so I ended up staying with him for many years. But when he flew around the world, I asked him to send me entries and journal entries, to keep a journal. And so he did, and I took all those journal entries. He did make it around the world. We were very thrilled and had all kinds of celebrations. But when he came back, I wanted to put this down and make it a book. So it’s called Touch the Sky, My Solo Flight Around the World. And Scholastic published it in 2012, I believe.

Bianca Schulze: I think that’s right, yeah.

Holly Peppe: In 2000… Scholastic published it in 2012. And it’s the story of his life from early life in Jamaica right through this amazing event, which happened in 2007. But one of the reasons that this was relevant to me is that he was bullied as a little boy when he was in grammar school because he came from Jamaica, he had a Jamaican accent, and kids teased him about the accent, the fact that he didn’t have the right book bag or the right sneakers or whatever, and he just rose above it. He just turned his back and rose above it and was able to lift himself from that. And now he’s a well-known educator and still a pilot. And so I think he’s also inspiring. You know, he’s another Sophie in a very different realm.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. I’m really glad that you shared that because I think, too, when we have our picture book readers and then we have our novel readers, and to be able to share a common thread message with kids of all ages is just so important. So I’m glad that you shared about it.

Holly Peppe: Good. Thank you.

Bianca Schulze: Yeah. Well, Holly, thank you so much for sharing your inspiring journey from teacher to writer with us today. I think your transition from teaching to writing and the insights on Sophie and the Swans have just been really enlightening and also just really important for young readers to hear. And your message about the power of kindness in addressing bullying is so crucial, not just for young readers, but for all readers, for all humans. So thank you for reminding us all with your words about treating others with kindness, even in challenging situations. And most importantly, thank you for sharing your precious time with me today and our amazing listeners.

Holly Peppe: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it, and I hope you enjoy the book. All of you.

About the Book

Written by Holly Peppe

Illustrated by Aeron Cargill

Ages: 3+ | 36 Pages

Publisher: Lincoln Square Books | ISBN: 978-1947187146

Publisher’s Book Summary: Sophie is a little girl who lives beside a lake and makes friends with a pair of swans who visit her every day. One day, when a bully starts to torment the swans, Sophie rushes to defend them not by attacking the bully but by showing him kindness when he gets into trouble on the lake.

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Show Notes

Holly Peppe is a writer and editor who lives near a lake full of colorful ducks, noisy gray geese, and elegant white swans who take to the sky when they feel like flying. Her published writing includes essays about the Jazz Age poet, Edna St. Vincent Millay; a memoir, Mum’s the Word: The High-flying Adventures of Eve Branson; and two Young Adult books about Barrington Irving, the first Black pilot and youngest person to fly solo around the world.

Thank you for listening to the Growing Readers Podcast episode Sophie and the Swans: Holly Peppe on Kindness, Bullying, and the Power of Children’s Literature. For the latest episodes from The Growing Readers Podcast, Subscribe or Follow Now.